EP #148: If You Think Today’s Concrete Is Better Than 30 Years Ago, Listen to This

Seth Tandett (00:00)
And welcome to another episode of the Concrete Logic podcast. And today I have Jeff Slagle. He is the, I knew I was going to lose it, director of Key Aggregate Accounts. Is that right, Jeff? ⁓ With Chaney Enterprises. He has agreed to come on today and talk about a subject that I don't think we've really talked about too much, but we're going to talk about

Jeff Slagle (00:13)
Correct.

Seth Tandett (00:25)
kind of the what mix designs were like about 30 years ago and kind of how they've changed through the years, what makes a good mix design. And if we got time, we're going to kind of look out and try to guess what mix designs are going to look like 10 years from now. But before we get started, I just want to remind everyone to

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If you're in the concrete industry and you want to further your education and you enjoy the format of the podcast, make sure to check out ConcreteLogicAcademy.com. It's the same kind of format, but we add quizzes to the podcast. So to make sure that you're grasping or absorbing what we're trying to educate you on. We can also give you, if you're a professional engineer, PE.

If you need continue education credits or professional development hours, we can give you the certificates or the backup for that as well. please check that out as well. With that, Jeff, let's get into the topic at hand. We're going to start with what mixed designs look like about 30 years ago. And then we're going to kind of come up to present day. And if we have time, we're going to.

Maybe guess what the future's like. But if you want to tell a little bit more about yourself and what you do, then we'll start on the topic. How's that?

Jeff Slagle (03:23)
Sure, perfect. I've kind of had an interesting career in the ready mix industry starting in 1995. I didn't know a rock from a piece of sand from cement in 1995. I was in the golf business for 10 years. I was $13.23. I get hired by Cheney Enterprises as a sales trainee and I really went through an intensive program. We had a concrete block manufacturing facility at the time. So I spent time on our block plant, our aggregate mines.

concrete plants, job sites, in trucks, in mixers, in dump trucks. I did that for about a year and then took over our local area as a sales rep. And then in by 2002, I became sales manager for nine reps with all of our products, aggregates, supplies, ready mix through the mid Atlantic area. Pretty much at that point was just Maryland and DC.

And then 2009, we bought out a partner in Fredericksburg, it was Rowe Concrete. So I went over there in 2009 as GM to kind of get that place changed over how we wanted to run. Obviously the market was not good in 2009 and our partner was all but ready to say, you guys can have the rest of it. So I had some lean times in that Fredericksburg market for a handful of years. So I did that till.

2014 and then took over as a concrete operations manager as we grew into Virginia, through our acquisitions in Richmond, through Green Rock and worked on those integrations to get that done as concrete operations manager, concrete operations officer, vice president of concrete operations. And now I am living in South Carolina and traveling Virginia and North Carolina and seeing customers and trying to grow our business.

You know, just being around concrete plants and the product is, either you love it you don't. If you don't love it, you need to change fields for sure. If you don't want to go out on the job site some days and just smell it coming down the chute, then you're in business.

Seth Tandett (05:16)
Yeah,

that's right. It's like getting a cup of coffee in the morning. ⁓ Yeah, so we kind of picked 30 years back. It's almost 40 years now, Jeff, about the late 90s. ⁓ So kind of set the table there. What were the mix designs like back then? And then just kind of.

Jeff Slagle (05:21)
You got it.

Sure.

Yeah.

Seth Tandett (05:43)
sense of was there different was there a difference between I would assume there was a difference between now and then I honestly I did I started shortly thereafter and I could tell you the first thing that wasn't the first thing I was thinking about was mixed designs I was I was just trying to figure out how to I started out the field as a field engineer I was just trying to figure out how to talk to everybody and and survive out in the field so

What were mixed designs like back then?

Jeff Slagle (06:15)
You know, honestly, in 95, 96, I don't know if we had any compression mixes at all. At that point, our company was more of a residential focus company and customers wanted a five bag, five and a half bag, six bag, six and a half bag. I don't if you remember those days, but it was, you know, we call that more of like a prescriptive mix where our architect or engineer says you need a minimum of, you know, 700 pounds of cement, but you still only need.

3500 PSI, why are we using 700 pounds cement? But it was very, very prescriptive. So obviously the big changes, changing everything from bag mixes over to compressive strength mixes and PSIs. And that really grew with us as we grew into the more of the commercial, became more known, but really we're basics. When you get down to it, it's not rocket science. It's of course, aggregate of five, aggregate of water and cement, mix it together, it's gonna hydrate and boom, it's gonna get hard, you're gonna have cement.

But we just had basic, basic water reducers. There was some of the lignite-based high ranges around, but they were really not very good. And then the polycarboxyl stuff came out probably in the mid to late 90s with us, which really kind of changed the game a little bit from high range. It allowed you to do more stuff. But big difference back then is, I mean, you use like a mid-range water reducer, it may use some air and training, because we're in that mid-Atlantic area where we really see the freeze-thaw.

but there was not a whole lot else out there. mean, there was no eclipse. There was no viscosity modifiers. It was just plain Jane. He might put a little bit of air entrainment in there or a little bit of mid range just so you can kind of, you know, and we didn't do it to cut back on cement. We did it more to, you know, protect ourselves and the customer from them ordering a four and pouring a seven.

Seth Tandett (07:51)
Were there any... So we talked about it in previous podcasts a little bit, but the changes of aggregate, you know, over time as you... I mean, just naturally, as you work your way through a quarry, the rock veins change and things like that locally. But back then, were there any changes in the aggregate? Was it still based around... You see a lot in the specs now that they... Nothing more than a three-quarter inch...

aggregate and things of that nature. Was that this kind of the same back then?

Jeff Slagle (08:26)
Pretty similar,

yeah, back then in any kind of spec work, it was usually one inch minus, because your three quarter, your 57 is gonna go from one inch minus for sure. that was pretty similar from an operational standpoint of running a ready mix plant. The thing that's really changed from back then, mean, all of our plants had three bins back then. You got three overhead ag storage bins for sand and you have two.

materials. Obviously one's got to be your sand. One's going to be some kind of a pea gravel or a number seven, number eight, and then some kind of 57. And then as things got blended and we're a company that manufactures, you know, wash gravel, we're going to be in the, we're going to be in the stone quarry business end of 2026, south of Richmond, but pretty much gravel. we would actually go and try to pee to pee things on commercial work and say, you're specking a blue stone. We can get the same.

material out of a three quarter wash gravel for the same thing. So that's been a big deal for us on that. But so many different blended mixes now is the thing. You gotta add a pea gravel, a three quarter stone and a sand and then all your other stuff. It really gets tough when you're multiple projects during the course of a day running a concrete plate. You're draining bins and then filling it back up.

Seth Tandett (09:41)
Yeah.

Yeah. there was no introduction, was there any introduction of SEMs at all back then that you can recall?

Jeff Slagle (09:52)
there was no SCMs back in 90. That probably came about 1998 when Blue Circle Cement acquired Newsem, which was your first slag really on the market in this area. was manufactured in Baltimore. So it was close by and it's funny that the sales rep that was rolling that out back in the day in the mid Atlantic, I'm still very close to the days working down in Florida for Florida and Chicago for a major company. But

It was very interesting. That was it. And it was new seminar. used that. Customers, you know, always kick their feet up, hated it. They didn't want it. Obviously, you know, you're in the field, Seth, it's going to, it delays your, your set a little bit, which is great in the summertime. But so much in the winter time for sure. And Fly-Ace probably became prevalent around 2000, 2001 in that, in that mid Atlantic area for sure. And it really, that was a hard push to get customers to go with Ash for sure.

Seth Tandett (10:49)
Is that where you want to go next? you think that was the next turning point in the last 30 years is the introduction of

Jeff Slagle (10:54)
I would say,

yeah, the SCMs and all that additional pozzolins for sure. mean, slag's still an outstanding product. I tell everybody today, if I'm going to do a brand new concrete driveway, I'm doing 50 % slag mix for sure. I'm going to get better long-term strengths on it. And I like that nice light color look you get to it. It's a great looking product when you hit it. Fly ash, not so much. So we really, when fly ash became prevalent, we were getting it from a couple of different sources. And it was, I mean, I think you could buy it for a bag of peanuts.

nothing now it's creeping up on cement numbers but Flyass really has a lot of redeeming qualities and so we couldn't get customers to buy in and try it so we went ahead and did our own branded mixes and we call them Cheney Crete.

Seth Tandett (11:27)
Uh-huh.

Jeff Slagle (11:36)
driveway mix, Chaney Crete, and we just slid a little fly ash in and the customers were like, this is amazing, it's so buttery and creamy. So that really got us over that. Then we went to them and said, look guys, you're 15 % to 18 % ash, that's performing good for you, you think it finishes better. So that really jumped the gun then and now it's common. You're really not gonna have a whole lot of mixes out there nowadays that don't have some kind of ash or slag or.

some kind of pozzolin in them for sure. And I don't know if you get hung up on this too much Seth, but like the mid-Atlantic area, like your fine aggregate is very reactive. So on your ASRs, you need some kind of ash or you need some kind of slag to go ahead and mitigate that portion of it.

Seth Tandett (12:22)
did not. I don't think I ever thought about that or talked about that. So, so Slag and Flyash were introduced. I like that way of, you know, branding it and supplying it. There's a lot more flexibility to do that on the residential side, isn't there, when you can do that and introduce it to those guys?

Jeff Slagle (12:38)
100%.

We just did it residentially. Our branded mixes were just and they're like, what's your strength on? Don't worry about it. Everything's gonna meet. We're all good to go. But yeah, that's residential for sure. And now, mean, 30 years ago, you never saw slag or ash, know, demanded in a specification. Now a lot of times it's required. We've done some power plant work where, you know, power plants generate.

They're coal burning plants, they generate the fly ash, so they want to move it. we actually did a project that we did 60 % ash on and 40 % cement. It for a power plant and was wild for sure.

Seth Tandett (13:16)
Yeah. Yeah. I talked to someone yesterday, actually, that's working on the Hampton Roads Bridge and Tunnel. And they were sharing that you said slag. There's quite a bit of slag they're using. they're also using every every yard has 25 pounds of silica fume. They use a lot of silica fume. But they're they're designing for a hundred year mix is what they're saying.

Jeff Slagle (13:36)
question.

Seth Tandett (13:45)
And then we were just talking, it's like, how do you know this thing's going to last 100 years? ⁓ But I guess it's VDOT. VDOT's done, you know, they do a lot of research and testing and things of that nature. So somebody came up and cooked that one up.

Jeff Slagle (13:51)
Thank

Right.

Yeah,

we just finished up that, I guess maybe two years ago, that Harry Nice Bridge from Maryland into Virginia on 301. And that was built, that was a hundred year lifespan. We had a plant sitting on site as well as we had a plant on site and a partnership JV when the new Woodrow Wilson Bridge was built. And those matte foundations at the bottom of that river were 75 % slag mixes. Just because it was such mass concrete to keep the heat down.

Seth Tandett (14:30)
wow.

Okay, we're jumping ahead. Let's stay on track, Jeff. So we're in the early 2000s. That's when you said there's an introduction to SEMs. What do you think is the next? And one thing I wanted to, you mentioned P2P, and we've talked about that on the podcast before. Can you explain that real quick, P2P?

Jeff Slagle (14:51)
It's a prescriptive to performance. Instead of being told, you know, we're the producers. Instead of being told, you've got to have this, you know, I love it, Seth, and I'm sure you've seen it, you know, they want a 0.38 water cement ratio for a 35 on a PSI mix. What is that? Let us give you a third on a PSI mix. We're the ones that have to guarantee it in 28 days, right? So let us put in there what we need to put in there to get that. So just getting away from them, telling us exactly how the mix needs to be to us saying, what do you want to format?

And at what time frame do you need to perform at that? Do you need a early strip, you know, two day mix? you need a just, you need PSI in 28 days? but yeah, that just getting it kind of out of the engineer's hands and into the producer's hands who do it every day.

Seth Tandett (15:33)
Yeah, we talked about that with Colin Lobo from NRMCA, and he does a great job explaining it. All right, so that's P2P. I wanted to make sure everyone understood what that was. OK, so early 2000s introduction to SEMs. What's the next kind of iteration of mixed design?

Jeff Slagle (15:37)
country.

Thank you.

Next thing would be, you your high range water reducers. You know, in the seventies and eighties, they were lignite based materials, really didn't work too well. And then I would say late eighties through early two thousands, they became like a poly carboxylate material. But still that material on high range, you remember the days of...

and putting a five gallon bucket high range on the truck and they'd add it when they get out to the job site because you had like 30 or 40 minutes and that stuff's ready to go. It's ready to go. But now we're past those two products. And honestly, I don't know what the stuff they're putting in nowadays, but it's magic. I mean, you can put it on and dry for an hour and add three or four gallons of water and it's right back to where it was. And now it's so versatile with your high ranges. mean, before it was, okay, we're gonna use two ounces a hundred weights to make sure we're good.

And now I've seen them, you know, two or three is their standard dose, but now they're going to, you know, six, seven, eight ounces of underweight. And the products you're seeing come out of there with your self-consolidating concrete. So that was a huge jump for the industry. It really allowed you to control the strength, the material, and not have to overflow with water and know you had the time to make it work. So that's probably really significant.

Seth Tandett (17:03)
When were those introduced? mid 2000s or?

Jeff Slagle (17:07)
I would say mid 2000s to the end of 2000s. My experience was probably 2009, 10, 11. You probably didn't live through the hell that was trying to get air entrainment.

level and a high range mix was an absolute nightmare. We threw away more loads in in Fredsburg, Virginia in a year period. I couldn't take it and I had every I had I had grace in there 10 times doing trial batches in the lab. They pretty much said we we don't understand why it's not being level. So but Seca made a great product. They're 2100 so I flipped it over to that and never had a problem. Prior to 2012 to try to air and train the high range mix

you're going to have one load, you got 8 % air, 9 % air, the next one you got 3 % air, just maddening.

Seth Tandett (17:50)
Is that Bob Swope? that? Who is it? Yeah.

Jeff Slagle (17:52)
Yep,

yep. Bob and his crew got me changed over and we were all grace till then grace had a heart attack but they're still good people.

Seth Tandett (17:59)
Yeah, it's big undoing when you all switch over, isn't it?

Jeff Slagle (18:04)
It was, you know, and a lot of our stuff is kind of, you know, overseen in like a global PO through them. But I just went ahead and threw it out and brought Bob Swope in and said, change over all my high range to 2100. And everything else was Grace. So we were hitting our number. had to for that. It took about two months and our president and CEO called me and said, did you switch out our high range? And I said, sure did. Put me over here to get a job done. I'm do it. What I gotta do. Grace couldn't figure out the problem, Seeker did.

Seth Tandett (18:30)
Yeah. All right, so high range introduction. What do you think's the next turning point there?

Jeff Slagle (18:37)
You know, those are your biggest things. You know, adding your supplementary cementitious materials, your pozzolins, and really your admixtures. I mean, the biggest one is the high range because now they can go from two ounces of 100 weight to six, seven, and they can make it do anything you want. If you just want a little extra, you know, you want to go from a four to a five-inch slump, that's fine. We can put a little bit in. If you want to go from a four to a, you know, 12 and not have any segregation.

So it really changed the game for sure. Aggregate wise, there's not been a lot of changes other than multiple aggregate mixes. If you dealt with anything like four, six, seven, like larger material for thick slabs, that's been different, but everything else has been pretty much the same. We're seeing a lot nowadays in the Northern Virginia market and in the richer market is a tremendous amount of thermal concrete that you really didn't see 20 years ago. Nobody heard of it.

Seth Tandett (19:17)
Yeah.

yeah.

Jeff Slagle (19:32)
But that's a lot of fine aggregate as far as saying, but a lot of like pea gravel, smaller size stuff, number seven, number eight stone. So that's a lot more prevalent than ever was. We used to do a little bit of duck bank, but that was easy peasy. But this new stuff is really going in because they've got to encase those things on data centers.

Seth Tandett (19:51)
Yeah, yeah, we talked about the, what was that episode? I'm to look real quick so people can look it up. We did a row concrete. That was episode 138. So if y'all want to learn about that, look that one up. Episode 138 is low row concrete, the hidden key to cooler, more efficient data centers. Yeah, we talked to a silverback concrete about that.

Well, I would, well, let's get, let's get up to current day. We can talk about what, you know, a favorite subject on this podcast is type one L submit. would say that would be the next big change to the group about, well, you know, we've been living it for what six years now.

Jeff Slagle (20:23)
Thank you.

Thanks.

Wow, it has been six years. That's, yes, I mean, just in my thinking, you know, 10, 20 years ago, I mean, that's a major change. It was all type one, type two. Every once in a while you got like a type three that a fast setting deal, but no producer wants to drain their bins out for a small job of, you know, a fast setting cement, but type one has come out like a lion and really just said, here it is. We were told that it would be available.

Seth Tandett (20:36)
Yeah.

Jeff Slagle (21:02)
Type and 1L for as long as we needed it to be. And then it kind of changed in about a year and it was nope, all Type L, environmentally speaking, it is less intrusive to the environment to produce than a normal Type 1, Type 2. But I'm not sure if enough was done on that. I think from a contractor standpoint.

We're hearing a lot of stuff about spotty setting with the type 1L as opposed to a type 1-2 where they could really kind of pinpoint when it was going to go. that is a major change. You wouldn't think of it. It's just cement, it's just powder, but it's an awful lot of limestone in there. mean, and our first concern is, I mean, how is all that limestone in the cement going to counteract with all the limestone when you're a 57 limestone? Is that going to overkill something? But it's been okay on that.

Strength wise have been pretty similar. I don't see anything crazy. I think it's more of an issue on the finishers end on a finishing standpoint with that material.

Seth Tandett (21:56)
Yeah, different methods of putting it down and finishing it and curing it.

Jeff Slagle (22:04)
You

guys in the field notice a big difference? I obviously you can't probably get type one, two anymore,

Seth Tandett (22:08)
it really depends who you're talking to. mean, man, do you know the finishers, you know, God bless them. They, they just go out there and get it done. and you know, they've learned, I think there's guys out there that are worried about complaining about

what they're getting and they're, you know, the guys, the journeymen that are out there that traveled. mean, the finishers are traveling guys. They travel from job to job because you're not going to typically you're not, you know, finishing at the same job from day to day, right? You're good. You're one job, one day. You're trying to get it down, get it finished because you got to be somewhere, you know, 100, 200 miles away the next day to put it down again. So, um,

Yeah, it really depends on if people are paying attention. think I've asked finishers before, it's like, hey man, you you're seeing a difference. It's a little stickier and things like that. But I think what was interesting back then, was kind of wrapping up or part of my last couple projects that I was on the operations side. So we talked about SCMs.

fly ash and slag and that was kind of in my career on the operation side and buying out concrete that was kind of the go-to for a value engineering option you would say you know the fly ash and the slag mixes were cheaper and if you you know showed that how much you could save on projects you know you could talk to engineering to doing it as and you just say hey we can we can get to what you need you just

Jeff Slagle (23:37)
Yeah.

Seth Tandett (23:44)
you know, be a little bit more flexible on your spec. but when Type 1L was introduced, that went away really quick. Like that fly ash mixes and the slag mixes, they were, it was no longer cheap. at, I think at points, it was even a premium to a straight mix. Yeah. So I remember.

Jeff Slagle (24:03)
It was, yeah, less for sure than the premium. And then they sold

the in the market and then everybody was buying ash because it was such a savings from a producer's point. And then everything started drying up and then you couldn't find ash anywhere. was, then we're committed to jobs and it was.

Seth Tandett (24:13)
Yeah.

Jeff Slagle (24:20)
it was a very tough situation. But from a Virginia area, ReadyMix producers, we've been very fortunate. So we changed up the Virginia ReadyMix board of directors a little bit over the last three or four months. But for the last probably four years, we made a conscious effort as producers to have all of our major cement manufacturers that service our market on our board of directors. So we had back then SROC, which we're a quick creed now.

We had Heidelberg, we had Roanoke. So we kind of had them all in there. So we really, as a board and executive committee, really got to know, we had the inside scoop, what was coming, when it was coming. Obviously they wanted our feedback also, but they wanted to let us know that, hey guys, this is not slowing down. It's not gonna be, it's an option you can use over here. It's gotta go that way, which I think cement producers 10 years ago became absolutely scared to death of.

the environmental results of what could happen with some of the environmental groups that are out there nowadays. And there's no doubt they got to enough people in Maryland and Virginia, lawmakers, and really pushed them to kind of hold us accountable, which from a producer standpoint, there's not a whole lot we can do. And using that cement helps a little bit.

Seth Tandett (25:27)
Yeah.

Jeff, you're being very PC. I appreciate it. I have a different opinion on that. And I've shared it on the podcast. But we won't get that in today. If you like to be on the podcast, I'll invite you back on. We can debate it little bit. got some.

Jeff Slagle (25:32)
We talked about that, we thought that nothing happened. ⁓

Perfect.

Seth Tandett (25:46)
stats and I'm looking it up real quick. I'm trying to figure out what percentage

the percentage of type 1L in the mineral anion. Now, it's about, what do you think is 75 %? 1L used in.

Jeff Slagle (26:03)
75.

Seth Tandett (26:09)
It was funny because I was talking to a supplier.

And when things were changing over, he's like, man, we use type 1L all the time. When it's available, we use it. That was before the switch.

What? 2020,

Jeff Slagle (26:21)
No, I mean it's a good product,

doubt. It's a good product, it works. I think they're gonna continue to refine it, anything.

Seth Tandett (26:25)
Yeah. So yeah,

that's a good lead into we got time here, a few minutes. Let's talk about what we think and what the future looks like.

Jeff Slagle (26:36)
You know, that's gonna be very interesting. I think you're gonna see, you know, unmanned trucks on the road for sure. mean, heck, I mean, five, six, seven years ago at ConAgar, World of Concrete, you're watching remote control mixers and, you know, one guy goes out there and drives it and then remote controls the rest of them on the job site. So I think that, what do they call that? Autonomous, autonomous vehicles. So that's, I think that's definitely coming. The number one problem for a ready mix producer is drivers.

You can't get them, there's no 20 year old kids nowadays who are like, you know what, I think I'm gonna drive a concrete truck. They might think that at seven, they quite quickly lose that when they come to be about 20. you know, trying to find, hire, promote and grow our drivers is the number one problem for a producer. So I think some kind of autonomous vehicle is gonna happen for sure. Heck, just saw that, what is it? Amazon's delivering packages via drone now. So, well, if we can drone concrete out there, we need something pretty heavy to.

get that thing moving. But from a material standpoint, I mean, I don't know what else the cement community can do to, you know, mitigate the carbon footprint other than the 1L. I'm sure they have engineers way smarter than me working on it right now, but something's got to be coming your way. I don't know what other, you know, SCM could be out there. We've looked at tests with, you know, all kinds of stuff.

Seth Tandett (27:28)
Ha

Jeff Slagle (27:53)
Nothing's really there unless something pops up. But I think the bulk of it can be in any kind of new type change of cement as they continue to refine the Type 1L. And then really, your main engineers are on the cement producers and on the ad-mix producers. So I would not be surprised to see some new cutting edge materials out there on the ad-mix side for sure.

Seth Tandett (28:12)
Yeah, yeah, we definitely continue on the blended cement side of things. I think there's talk of what some clays and some other things that are out there. And there was a an article posted by a group. I got to check it out. Hopefully we'll talk about on the podcast. I got to read through it. Forty eight pages of the future of blended cement.

I think it was on ACI. Tyler Lay and Eric Kohler, a couple other folks wrote. So we got to check that out, see what they're saying. But yeah, I think it really depends on where you are in the country too. Because again, looking at the numbers from last year, mean, down in Houston, man, they're important, a lot of cement. And they're.

Jeff Slagle (29:05)
Yep.

Seth Tandett (29:08)
I mean, you look at the numbers down there compared to the Mid-Atlantic, it just like dwarfs us. It's like they pour a ton of concrete down there.

Jeff Slagle (29:15)
Thank you.

Yeah, it my mind we were looking at a change which we did to a product called Verify, if you ever heard of that product. So actually, Paul Cheyney and myself went and kind of spent some time with a producer down that area and I said, well, how many trucks do you have it on? And he said, right now we have it on like 450 in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. 450 trucks in the Dallas-Fort Worth area? It my mind. But you think about it, if things get back to the housing boom,

Seth Tandett (29:37)
Yeah.

Jeff Slagle (29:42)
With the data centers on top of it right now, that it was, let's say the housing in 2005 and the data center work we have now, it booms. There's no cement consumption. The U.S. will not keep up. We're going to have to have imports without a doubt, which I think you've got some players now that are already importing, so that's probably cutting a little bit into it.

Seth Tandett (29:53)
Yeah.

Yeah. Well, the market overall was softening last year. So we did less than we did in 2024. So 2025 was a little bit down from, if you look at the whole country overall. And then again, you got to look at each region on how they did, but it was softening a little bit. So it'll be interesting to see what 2026 brings us and how we all fare there. But I think this was great. This was a great snapshot of last 30 years.

And I think it was great to hear even a very localized, you're here in the Mid-Atlantic with me. it's nice to hear the history of that and how things have changed in this region. If folks want to reach out to you and learn more about you and Chaney, what's the best way?

Jeff Slagle (30:36)
Yeah.

Sure, anything on Chaney obviously is chaneyenterprises.com. Feel free to reach out to me, my email is J. Slagle, that's S-L-A-G-L-E at chaneyenterprises.com or they can get you by phone at 301-399-2224. Always love to talk about the industry and ready mixed product, for sure.

Seth Tandett (31:06)
All right, Jeff, I appreciate you coming on the show today. like I said, if you want to do this again, hit me up. I enjoyed our conversation. ⁓ Yes, sir. And folks, until next time, let's keep it concrete.

Jeff Slagle (31:15)
Sounds great. Appreciate it.